Bye bye PtW - Page 2

FrustratedPoet · October 13, 2003, 04:46

Sounds fantastic.

Stuie · October 13, 2003, 08:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis
I know you already got started, but I would recommend getting rid of the no cities on forests or jungles. The AI will not know to chop down forests/jungles to create a suitable city spot...

Teach it to, Soren!!

I can't stand maps that end up wall to wall cities, so I also have forest and jungle (and desert and tundra) flagged as "no cities". I knew the AI couldn't handle it, so I have a "house rule" that I cannot chop down forest/jungle to create a city site.

Arrian · October 13, 2003, 16:23

Sounds cool, Sir Ralph! The poor Germans being attacked by their aggressive neighbors! Man, I love Civ.

Do give us some screenshots when you have a chance.

Now what would be cool would be if certain civs (Inca, Maya) had civ-specific abilities to settle mountains and jungle, whereas everybody else couldn't settle mountains, and had to chop jungle down first before placing cities.

-Arrian

Harovan · October 13, 2003, 17:27

Eat this, screenshot lovers!

Evil Russia sneak attacks peaceful Germany (almost, except one attack on Carthage in the ancient age to clear a city site - space is precious in this game!), 3rd time in a row and only 2 turns after the latest peace was signed. St Petersburg just had flipped back. <CORACLE>I love culture flipping

</CORACLE>

Harovan · October 13, 2003, 17:31

And one more, for the textbook of ring city placement (abbr. R.C.P. in PtW and R.I.P. in Conquests, thank God). A perfect 4-spaced ring. I know I am an evil exploiter, and cheater and all that, but hey, I couldn't help it...

Harovan · October 13, 2003, 17:38

By the way, permanent warfare has its benefits too. It's 1050AD and I just had my 3rd leader. I used them for:

1) Army (there was nothing else to build), Heroic Epic built
2) FP in Kiev, in result of the 2nd Russian war
3) Adam Smith's in Dresden

I renamed my leader Knights to "Götz von Berlichingen", "Wolfram von Eschenbach" and "Hartmann von Aue". None of them survived their wars. Damn Russkies

.

vmxa1 · October 13, 2003, 17:50

I hope your mention of Coracle will not call him back

Nice row of mines.

badams52 · October 13, 2003, 18:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
And one more, for the textbook of ring city placement (abbr. R.C.P. in PtW and R.I.P. in Conquests, thank God). A perfect 4-spaced ring. I know I am an evil exploiter, and cheater and all that, but hey, I couldn't help it...

I haven't been keeping up with the Conquests news, but is it true that they're getting rid of the RCP exploit? Did Firaxis say they're fixing the exploit? Anyone got a link?

It makes sense for them to do so now that I think of it.

vmxa1 · October 13, 2003, 18:50

The strat guide that comes with the bonus CD shows it with detail layouts, so one wonders if it is out. The guide is aimed at C3C as shown by this:

Konquest02 · October 13, 2003, 18:58

They said it was out in the C3C chat over at CFC, but refused to give any details on the fix. However, they are affirmative that RCP is now dead in Conquests.

--Kon--

Harovan · October 13, 2003, 20:40

After we consolidated our conquest of St Petersburg and Odessa, we layed Moscow under siege with 11 cannons and about 10 cavalries and finally took it. To push back the Russian culture and to decrease the risk of flipping, we decide not to take Moscow, but to raze it. The Russian capital jumps to Minsk (bottom left). Here is Cathys 3rd chance to keep a peace treaty. Oh well, I'm almost sure that I see her again, when she has Cossacks.

Harovan · October 13, 2003, 20:54

I just traded for Navigation and sent two Caravels exploring. Found a vast continent, like ours inhabited by 11 civs. Makes 22. The Arabs have been destroyed in the ancient age. One civ is still missing. Hell knows where. I hope I just didn't pay attention, may be it's destroyed too. Anyway, I will look for it in the upper left corner.

Here's a minimap:

vmxa1 · October 13, 2003, 22:46

What kind of times are you seeing now for a turn with wars going on?

Harovan · October 14, 2003, 03:13

Turns are about a minute. I have combat animations on and all other animations off, but I let display all turns, manual and automatic. It's well playable, but I'm not in the industrial age yet, although it's already close (2 techs to go).

The other continent is awfully backwards and seems to have seen many wars. They are around Education/Printing Press, while the tech leaders at our continent (England, France, Germany) are approaching the industrial age. Don't know what makes the difference. It's hardly my presence, England and France were researching at a nice pace, I could hardly keep it. I slowed down England by deliberately draining her gpt. I didn't want a quick tech race, to live out some nice, medieval wars without seeing the insane infantry slugfest, that starts with the industrial age.

Right now I am on the verge to get a tech lead. With the other continent being so backward, the industrial and modern ages seem to get "Ultimate Power" dimensions. It's about time for me, the only wonder I have so far is Smiths, rushed with a leader.

On a sidenote: There is a fairly silly bug in my scenario: I forgot to make the Rider wheeled.

Damn, I somehow knew I forgot one of the Knight level UUs.

Harovan · October 14, 2003, 12:13

Ok, I lost my bet. Cathy didn't wait till Cossacks. We signed peace in 1250AD. 1255AD she came again with two Knights. I said her to bugger off and she promised to do it. Next turn, the two Knights went deeper in. This time I asked to leave or to declare war. She left. One turn later three Knights came on my territory. And after the obligatory request to leave, this happened:

Beta · October 14, 2003, 12:18

Sir Ralph... great setup, and a great read.

Thank you.

Well, my new machine could use a game that stretches its legs a bit - so I will crank this one up tonight. I also like Stuie's house rule to balance the game play.

Again - thank you.

Harovan · October 14, 2003, 12:21

Are you still lurking, Soren? What does Russia want, again and again? She does not cease to attack, peace treaty or not. She is backwards, poor and weak compared to me, I can destroy her at will. Actually I can't, because she owns a one-tile island, never thought the map generator allows this. But still... I have played civ a lot and seen many wars, but never experienced a civ as aggressive as this.

I have a save and will upload or send it on demand, but it is >500 kb and Apolyton won't attach it.

FrustratedPoet · October 14, 2003, 12:34

Quote:

She is backwards, poor and weak compared to me, I can destroy her at will. Actually I can't, because she owns a one-tile island, never thought the map generator allows this.

Maybe the AI knows it can't be killed by you since you don't have Marines so it thinks it is invincible?

vmxa1 · October 14, 2003, 12:35

I have only seen something like that when they had an MPP and I was forced to attack their partner.

alexman · October 14, 2003, 12:51

Is Russia at war with anyone?
I have seen this happen when the AI needs to cross my lands to attack someone on the other side.

Harovan · October 14, 2003, 13:53

No, Russia is at war only with me.

Arrian · October 14, 2003, 15:48

I've seen this happen too, and it's most likely because she's trying to go sneak attack a different civ on the other side of you. That's what happened in my experience.

Try this: load up the turn where she refuses to leave, give her a RoP instead. I'm betting she sends those knights on through and hits England or France. She's only declaring war because the only alternative you're giving her is to leave (and thus not be able to attack whichever civ she's after - you big meanie!

).

-Arrian

Harovan · October 14, 2003, 16:45

Well... may be you're right, but my inner cities are undefended and temples, cathedrals, colosseums, libraries and universities aren't exactly quickly rebuilt, if you are wrong.

vmxa1 · October 14, 2003, 18:06

I think Arrain means to save where you are and come back to it regardless of how it turns out. IOW just run a few turns where you ask them to leave and not ask and see if they are on a sneak attack against you or some one else. Just for clarification. You could not take that change normally, but this just to satisfy curiousity. If you have undefended cities, I am suspectign they meant to come for them, not some other civ, but who knows.

notyoueither · October 14, 2003, 21:04

My bet is with vmxa1. Try garrisoning those cities, and I bet she stops. Although Arrian and alexman have a good theory too.

Alas, I did not wait for you to start this so I could 'play along'. I didn't know you would be so quick, so I started one last PTW game of my own. I'd have to say I'm having a slightly easier time of it, but then my settings are not as tough as yours. It's still interesting though.

I have to wonder if the PTW generator 'knew' what was up and generated some memorable maps...

vmxa1 · October 14, 2003, 23:23

You have time for at least one more game as 11/5/03 looks like the new date.

notyoueither · October 15, 2003, 02:29

Not at the speed I play.

Harovan · October 15, 2003, 02:53

I played only a couple of turns yesterday, because I had to care for my guests and decided to go to bed early, and not like one day before, when I went to bed at 3:30am, because I wanted to play that famous one more turn. I'm in the industrial age now and got Steam Power for free, woohoo!

I sucked Liz dry, she stopped her research, so I have a lead of 2 advances now. The other continent is bombing me with luxury offers. I trade eagerly and pay the difference in gold instead with techs in order to give the AIs the opportunity to level techs with tech-for-luxury trades (they don't have gold anyway, theirs is mine now).

I played one turn with a reloaded game, made a RoP with Russia and it seems, that the "sneak attack another civ" theory is true, because the three knights passed by my undefended forbidden palace city. It's still not very sure, because sneak attacks go often towards the capital, especially when it's undefended. But to be honest, I don't have time and the nerve to check this out. I decided to break Russias spine and reduce it to a powerless vassal with a couple of hill cities.

I can't play much today, because I have a ... erm ... let's call it "evening meeting" with my colleagues, so the epic continues tomorrow.

Arrian · October 15, 2003, 11:18

Sounds good, SR

I do think Cathy was going after Lizzie or Joany. But maybe Berlin was more tempting... either one is possible.

-Arrian

Snotty · October 15, 2003, 15:15

Sir Ralph, its odd you mention the one tile island, as I have one in my game with this scenario. I ran standard, 70% continents, rest random. There is a one tile desert island off of my coast.

I dont remember seeing one before.

Im playing Mongols, but no horses

There isnt as much open space as I was expecting. The land hungry AI will happily place a city on a hill surrounded by desert. There are tracts of unsettled forests, but as borders expand, and citys are squeezed in then these will be chopped.

Thanks for the mod, its superb.