Dell taking on iPod; consumer electronics... - Page 2

Agathon · October 9, 2003, 22:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

Perhaps if you debated the content rather than blindly causing someone a "hopeless liar" it'd make your position look somewhat less tw*tish.

You are a liar. That has been proved to me beyond all reasonable doubt by your own actions - most blatantly in this last week. Hence I can't be bothered to "debate" with you because you'll just end up telling more lies to save your (inflated) ego.

I'm not the only poster who's caught you out lying, so don't blame me for your problems.

Anyway, Ignore List for you.

Asher · October 9, 2003, 22:54

When have I lied?

For the record, is "Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire" an acceptable tactic in the world of Philosophy or are you just a rebel?

This is without a doubt, the most pathetic showing you've ever had on Apolyton.

You never even attempted to discuss my points, you had an elementary school mindset from the beginning and avoided discussing the issues (probably because you have no recourse), so you based an entire argument out of baseless ad hominems, not even backing those up, and ending with your "you are a liar! I ignore you now!" tactic.

Asher · October 9, 2003, 23:06

An interesting article for those of us mature enough to read it: http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/09/100...ahoo&referrer=

Quote:

Ex-Apple CEO Regrets Nixing Intel
Stephen Lawson, 10.09.03, 1:40 PM ET

Apple should have adopted the Intel architecture when it had the chance, former Apple leader John Sculley said Tuesday.

In the late-1980s, when Apple (nasdaq: AAPL - news - people ) was using the Motorola (nyse: MOT - news - people ) 68000 series chips and considering its next step, Intel co-founder Andy Grove tried to convince the company to migrate to Intel (nasdaq: INTC - news - people ) chips, Sculley told a standing-room-only crowd at the Silicon Valley 4.0 conference, held at the Computer History Museum, in Mountain View, Calif.

An experienced team from Cupertino, Calif.-based Apple studied the idea but turned it down. Apple concluded that Intel's CISC (Complex Instruction Set Computer) architecture ultimately would not be able to compete against RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computer) processors, which had a more advanced instruction set, he said. Apple later adopted RISC.

"That's probably one of the biggest mistakes I've ever made, not going to the Intel platform," said Sculley, Apple's former chairman and CEO, now a partner in New York investment firm Sculley Brothers.

As it turned out, Intel was able to keep its CISC architecture and bring the RISC instruction set into it. What Apple had underestimated was the power of Intel's overall system as a manufacturer, bringing billions of dollars to bear on the problem and solving it through evolution, Sculley said.

"They never had to do a heart transplant," he said.

Had it gone to the Intel platform, Apple would have had more options, he said. For one thing, not embracing the endless commoditization of Intel-architecture chips meant Apple couldn't compete on price against "the Dell (nasdaq: DELL - news - people )s of the world," he said. The die was cast. Apple took another path and ended up a different kind of company, Sculley said.

A smaller one, perhaps.

Drake Tungsten · October 10, 2003, 00:09

Yet another thread ruined before I got to it. If I was Kaak, I'd be pissed right now.

Asher · October 10, 2003, 00:10

/me idly notes that it's Agathon who ruined it, I was on topic.

It's not my fault that the man can't present a case, and resorts to ad hominem and plugging his ears. And it's not my fault that you're nothing but his cheerleader in all threads, taking cheap shots and adding to the spam he generates.

Drake Tungsten · October 10, 2003, 00:12

It's pretty clear who really ruined the thread, but I guess one more lie isn't surprising coming from you.

Asher · October 10, 2003, 00:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
It's pretty clear who really ruined the thread

Yeah, it is isn't it:

Quote:

Who asked for your ill-informed opinion?

And now you're taking over, since you haven't even posted a single on-topic post in this thread.

And for the record, if you guys are going to constantly insist I'm lying, would it kill you to actually tell me when I lied? It's kinda lame to insist it in many threads, many times, then ignore it when someone asks where the lying occured...

Drake Tungsten · October 10, 2003, 00:16

I wanted to ask Kaak how Dell was planning to set up an iTMS-like service without their own equivalent of iTunes, but it's kind of hard to post on-topic when the thread has been jacked beyond all recognition. John Sculley talking about Intel chips? Thanks a lot...

Quote:

And for the record, if you guys are going to constantly insist I'm lying, would it kill you to actually tell me when I lied?

Don't play dumb; you know exactly what we're talking about. I'm reminded of it every time I listen to the iTunes purchases that were supposed to be deleted by Apple once I got to Japan, according to a certain accuracy-impaired individual.

Asher · October 10, 2003, 00:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I wanted to ask Kaak how Dell was planning to set up an iTMS-like service without their own equivalent of iTunes.

You can't comprehend how music can be sold without a media player program? Is this some kind of joke?

Quote:

but it's kind of hard to post on-topic when the thread has been jacked beyond all recognition. John Sculley talking about Intel chips? Thanks a lot...

You skip half a dozen posts about Agathon's ad hominems against me and childish rants, then you take issue with a Forbes article published today involving Dell and Apple, in a thread about Dell and Apple?

You try too hard...

Trifna · October 10, 2003, 00:49

You're both liars!!

I'm not too sure which American general (the greatest one during WW2) had this diplomatic diner with the Russians (that he didn't liked):
US general: "You are a son of a bit*h."
USSR general: "You too."
US general: "Then let's drink between two son of b*tches"

Asher · October 10, 2003, 00:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Don't play dumb; you know exactly what we're talking about. I'm reminded of it every time I listen to the iTunes purchases that were supposed to be deleted by Apple once I got to Japan, according to a certain accuracy-impaired individual.

So how am I lying? I'm not the one saying it's happened to me, I'm merely saying it has happened to a woman in Canada, and Apple tech support told her she needed to read the fine print.

The site is here: http://politechbot.com/p-04993.html
There is a follow up here: http://www.interesting-people.org/ar.../msg00150.html

Apple has claimed that the representative was given "wrong information", but either way the songs were deleted. They helped her restore the songs afterwards, so perhaps the reason it's not deleted anymore was Apple realized what a boneheaded move it was and removed that feature.

That does not make me a liar for pointing you to what's happened with someone who's had it happen to them.

Ironically, the person lying here is the one saying I was lying.

Kaak · October 10, 2003, 11:11

Quote:

I wanted to ask Kaak how Dell was planning to set up an iTMS-like service without their own equivalent of iTunes, but it's kind of hard to post on-topic when the thread has been jacked beyond all recognition. John Sculley talking about Intel chips? Thanks a lot...

Dell is changing their website. We will have something much like iTunes...

Q Classic · October 10, 2003, 11:14

honestly, i don't like the itunes app much.

too heavy. give me winamp2x anyday.

Q Classic · October 10, 2003, 11:22

oh, and trifna, that would be patton.

yavoon · October 10, 2003, 12:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

Who is immitating who?

Apple wasn't the first company with a harddrive portable media player, nor the first company to sell music online through a service.

its pretty safe to say dell is imitating apple. its the relative success of apple's product that caused the imitation. its the idea that it can work that is being imitated not the trivialness of "someone somewhere has done it before."

apple has caused a lot of waves of imitation on the pc side. including their operating system.

Asher · October 10, 2003, 13:04

That makes sense from that perspective.

I still don't think anyone who sells music online and sells a portable media player should be labeled as immitating Apple though, since people have been doing that long before Apple. Just now that the devices have higher capactieis and more people have broadband that it's catching on.

"Immitation" goes both ways, some good ideas are implemented on both sides and those ideas tend to manifest themselves on both sides.

It certainly gets to me how some people only seem to think PCs copy Apple, when Apple is just as guilty, if not moreso.

yavoon · October 10, 2003, 13:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
That makes sense from that perspective.

I still don't think anyone who sells music online and sells a portable media player should be labeled as immitating Apple though, since people have been doing that long before Apple. Just now that the devices have higher capactieis and more people have broadband that it's catching on.

"Immitation" goes both ways, some good ideas are implemented on both sides and those ideas tend to manifest themselves on both sides.

It certainly gets to me how some people only seem to think PCs copy Apple, when Apple is just as guilty, if not moreso.

=D see now ur just inviting ppl to say "apple copied pcs more than pcs copied apple vice versa." u invite all this man.

but I running now, out before bomb hits.

Q Classic · October 10, 2003, 13:15

actually, apple copied xerox and microsoft copied apple.

at least the beginning.

now that the big bang is over, things are a bit different.

yavoon · October 10, 2003, 13:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
actually, apple copied xerox and microsoft copied apple.

at least the beginning.

now that the big bang is over, things are a bit different.

asin intent w/ my previous post there is an important differentiation in the world of corporate copycats.

apple copied xerox who didnt make a dime. microsoft copied apple after apple made millions.

Q Classic · October 10, 2003, 13:24

well, to be fair, xerox wasn't in it to make a dime.

xerox parc was a research park. hell, they invited apple and microsoft over.

Q Classic · October 10, 2003, 13:26

oh, and microsoft's claim to fame has never really been innovation. it's always been make a copy, but work at it, do it better, and then let it sit after you've crushed the enemy.

look at office.

or windows. or ie.

although, one must admit that microsoft has come up with some good ideas: making the web browser and the file browser the same program, the start bar, fast user switching...

yavoon · October 10, 2003, 13:29

microsofts claim to fame is its complete and utter dominance over apple in the business side of almost anything.

bill gates>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>steve jobs at business sense and I might not have used enuff >'s. after it acquired its dominance its clame to fame has been the manipulations and contortions of its monopoly into even more insane amts of profit.

GM in the 50's and Microsoft in the 90's.

Q Classic · October 10, 2003, 13:35

i do like some of what bill gates has done with his money, though. philanthropy ==

in my book.

i also don't mind microsofts products too much, either.

but you're right about who had business sense and who didn't. jobs is starting to get some good sense, though, but his forte has always been ideas, not so much execution.

Agathon · October 10, 2003, 16:18

Quote:

Originally posted by yavoon
microsofts claim to fame is its complete and utter dominance over apple in the business side of almost anything.

bill gates>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>steve jobs at business sense and I might not have used enuff >'s. after it acquired its dominance its clame to fame has been the manipulations and contortions of its monopoly into even more insane amts of profit..

Actually it's unfair to compare Gates with Jobs. Jobs was in basically in charge of Apple until just after the Macintosh debuted in 1984. Then he was pushed out by John Sculley. Apple then suffered 13 years of mismanagement by various incompetent CEO's and was on the verge of collapse until Jobs came back.

Since then the company has been in no danger of collapse and has done some pretty good things. I think only Apple and Dell are actually making money right now.

Jobs only real failure was NeXT. He really did miss the boat on that one.

On the other hand he bought Pixar when it was nothing and ten years ago said that he wanted to overthrow Disney's dominance of animated movies. That looked like a ridiculous boast then, but it looks pretty good right now. He did the wheeling and dealing to put Pixar in the position it now enjoys.

As for copying. All computer companies copy each other to some extent. Apple can be accused of copying Cleartype, a Microsoft innovation. However, the idea behind Cleartype was itself copied from other sources - oddly enough the most cited one being Steve Wozniak, who developed sub pixel rendering for the Apple II back in 1976. One persistent rumour is that MS obtained the rights to this technology back in 1997 when it invested 150 mil in Apple. Kudos to them for finding another use for it.

On the other hand, several other people claim to have invented it, so we may never know since the topic has long since deteriorated into a pissing contest.

Kaak · October 10, 2003, 16:28

hey guys, near the top and bottom of this page, there are little buttons that say "new thread." If you push it, an amazing thing will happen. a form will pop up and you can even put in a title "apple vs MS" or "jobs vs gates," But can we please try to keep this one on topic?

Anyway, dell is also coming out with a media player, organizer type thing, much like the one on media center PCs. It is also on that page that i linked to.

Q Classic · October 10, 2003, 20:53

dell's nice, but i'm going to stick with my sonys and samsungs for most consumer goods.

Drake Tungsten · October 11, 2003, 06:07

Quote:

Dell is changing their website. We will have something much like iTunes...

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

Wraith · October 11, 2003, 10:25

--"dell's nice, but i'm going to stick with my sonys and samsungs for most consumer goods."

I stay away from Sony myself. They're overpriced and push proprietary solutions too much.

Of course, I'm one of the people who have no brand loyalty. Whatever's best for the buck is what I get.

Right now, I've got stuff from:
Panasonic
Samsung
Toshiba
Olympus
RCA

Only Sony is a PlayStation...

Wraith
I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

Kaak · October 11, 2003, 17:00

voila....a new dell website as promised!!!!

http://www.dell.com

Agathon · October 11, 2003, 17:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaak
voila....a new dell website as promised!!!!

http://www.dell.com

Where's the music? Or is it not up yet?