I'm Thinking About ...

[Gatekeeper]

... investing the $2700 or so I put up for a new iMac into other options, such as:

1. A solid oak (or mahogany) entertainment center.
2. A HD digital television.
3. XBox and/or PS2.
4. DVD player/recorder.
5. VCR (just for old time's sake).

And I bet I'd have some left over! Alas, not enough for a Macintosh, though. Tough luck, Apple! Looks like other areas of the economy are going to get at least some of my savings, not you! (You have Macsoft to thank for this, plus common sense on my part.)

But, hey, I doubt you'll notice, Apple. You're too damn busy upgrading your OS every three to four months. Maybe in another year or two, when my "fun" budget is replenished, I'll take a look-see at a Mac. Until then, my old iMac 333mhz makes for a fine Internet-surfing machine, and is more than capable of playing Civ II.

Gatekeeper

[Asher]

/me spent $2700 on a top of the line gaming rig, and that's around the same price for an iMac? Amazing.

And it is pretty amazing how Apple releases a new version of MacOS for $119 every year or so (2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005...) while MS releases 1 version every 4 years (2001, 2005) for a $99 upgrade, while releasing free upgrades inbetween (USB2, .NET, antivirus, improved firewall, windows media 9, MSN 6, directx 9, etc.

[Drake Tungsten]

I'd get a PS2 over an Xbox if I were you, Gatekeeper.

[Gatekeeper]

Asher:

The $2700 wasn't just for the iMac itself — it was also for software, a decent printer/scanner combo, taxes and so on.

Drake:

I'll probably get both systems. I love the Chrono series of games, and the third in the series will likely remain on the PS series of game consoles. But XBox has drawn my interest lately as well, mainly because of KOTOR and Ninja Gaiden.

Gatekeeper

[Gatekeeper]

I'm finding out that it's a wilderness when it comes to buying HD/digital television sets. Most are HD capable — meaning you have to put a card/converter box in 'em when HD becomes the norm in a few years — while others are HD ready, but the cards in them may not be compatible with what your provider (i.e. cable, satellite) ultimately chooses to offer down the road.

I might just stick with an analog flat-screen TV for the time being and wait for more uniformity in the HD field before plunking down cold, hard cash for a set.

Gatekeeper

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper

But, hey, I doubt you'll notice, Apple. You're too damn busy upgrading your OS every three to four months. Maybe in another year or two, when my "fun" budget is replenished, I'll take a look-see at a Mac. Until then, my old iMac 333mhz makes for a fine Internet-surfing machine, and is more than capable of playing Civ II.

I have a slightly faster imac than yours and I'm not planning to upgrade for at least another year.

Apart from some games (none of which interest me) my computer runs just fine.

The 17 inch imacs are really nice though. I just set one up for a colleague.

[Agathon]

Actually here's a better plan.

Buy a new Hard Drive for your imac. I got a 40 gig drive for less than 100 Canadian dollars. It's a breeze to install. Then get 256 MB of RAM (or more), update the firmware on your machine (free) and buy a copy of Panther when it comes out (130 bucks).

Hey presto, you have a machine that will run Civ II (and all your old OS 9 apps) and you get the new system and all the nice new iapps and stuff. You can also invest in OS X software which you can transfer to your new machine when you decide to get it.

That should give your machine an extra couple of years usable life.

Jag would run fine on your imac and Panther is even faster acc to published reports. And you can boot back into OS 9 if you need to (which should never happen).

There you go - a new machine for about 250 dollars.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
I'm finding out that it's a wilderness when it comes to buying HD/digital television sets. Most are HD capable — meaning you have to put a card/converter box in 'em when HD becomes the norm in a few years — while others are HD ready, but the cards in them may not be compatible with what your provider (i.e. cable, satellite) ultimately chooses to offer down the road.

Go for the HD Capable ones -- if you get digital cable and HDTV, it comes with the tuner in the digital cable terminal.
If you get satellite TV and HDTV, it comes with the tuner in the satellite terminal.

Makes no sense to have a tuner built in if you need to buy one anyway with your service.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Actually here's a better plan.

Buy a new Hard Drive for your imac. I got a 40 gig drive for less than 100 Canadian dollars.

$2.50 per gig for a vanilla 40GB drive?

I paid $1.40 per gig for a 240GB Serial ATA 8MB-cache RAID0 (double reading/writing speed) set of drives.

[Gatekeeper]

Agathon:

Yep, the 17-inch flat-screens are nice. But that's the operative word, "nice." Not necessary, at least in my case. And if I did everything you suggested to get a "new" iMac, my built-in monitor would probably then blow out, leaving me with nothing to see, unless I dropped more money.

Asher:

That's what the salespeople basically say, too: Buy only the HD capable sets for the time being. There was a nice 30-inch 16:9 set for $950 (US) at a local Sears store, and it had a built-in tuner. You really can tell the difference between a 480 and 1080.

Gatekeeper

[Asher]

My new PC outputs to the TV in HDTV via component cables.

Now that, my friends, is sexy.

1920x1080 gaming on a Sony WEGA XBR 36".

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
Agathon:

Yep, the 17-inch flat-screens are nice. But that's the operative word, "nice." Not necessary, at least in my case. And if I did everything you suggested to get a "new" iMac, my built-in monitor would probably then blow out, leaving me with nothing to see, unless I dropped more money.

Why?

I've had this imac for over 3 years and it is on most of the time and is used heavily (mostly by my wife who spends hours posting to hockey fan sites). Nothing has ever gone wrong with the monitor. I've seen a stack of first generation imacs which have had no monitor problems at all despite suffering heavy use in computer labs. Those things must be nearly six years old and still work just fine. Those stupid hockey puck mice have had to be replaced though.

People seem to think that the imac is a "buy and don't touch" computer. That's just not true. You can make all sorts of upgrades quite easily.

I suppose it is weighing the benefits against the cash. But my computing life has certainly improved by making these upgrades.

[Gatekeeper]

Asher:

I, too, have heard that component is even better than "S" video when it comes to picture, sound and whatnot. I've started seeing DVD players and some TV sets with these options. They range from $250 to $450 (US).

Agathon:

I doubt it would ever happen, having a monitor blow out. But I like being fatalistic sometimes. That way, when it doesn't happen, I can be happy. Or something like that, at any rate. And, for the record, my iMac has functioned perfectly since I purchased it way back in the golden age of May 1999, when the stock market was booming, and I was young and FREEEEE ...

Gatekeeper

[Asher]

Component is way better than S-Video for video: It has 3 different cables, one for red, one for green, one for blue. There is no longer any color "bleeding" like in composite and S-Video.

Component is also entirely digital and is the only connector that allows resolutions above 480.

Component doesn't do sound though, sound on a high-end system is done through a coaxial cable or optical.

[Gatekeeper]

So audio would still go in through the usual R and L channels via cable then, correct?

[Asher]

It seems like a shame to get a high end screen and still use the crappy analog outs for L and R channels.

If you'd go for an HDTV you should go for surround sound too, in which case you'd use a single coaxial cable or single optical cable, and not the L/R (white/red) cables from an RCA jack.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Asher
And it is pretty amazing how Apple releases a new version of MacOS for $119 every year or so (2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005...) while MS releases 1 version every 4 years (2001, 2005) for a $99 upgrade

Last time I checked Microshaft forces the customers to buy a new OEM license with every new computer, or the "registration" won't work.

while releasing free upgrades inbetween (USB2, .NET, ... , directx 9

every OS I know updates drivers and RTLs for free between releases.

antivirus,

improved firewall,

windows media 9, MSN 6, ..., etc.

It would be nasty to let the customers pay for spyware, wouldn't it?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Last time I checked Microshaft forces the customers to buy a new OEM license with every new computer, or the "registration" won't work.

If you're upgrading your computer, the same license works. You can't install it on additional computers if you buy one license. The Mac OS X license works the same way, though they don't have activation.

every OS I know updates drivers and RTLs for free between releases.

I coulda sworn that Apple makes things like new versions of iChat AV and Cocoa only in new versions of Mac OS X...

Why're you laughing? You haven't even seen them yet, they're coming in SP2.

It would be nasty to let the customers pay for spyware, wouldn't it?

Neither is spyware. MSN 6 comes with an optional "Customer Improvement Program", disabled by default, which would send usage data to MS. To enable it, you must go into Preferences and turn it on. That's hardly spyware.

WM9 uses WindowsMedia servers to pull track data from the internet by default, which you can also turn off. That, too, is hardly spyware.

Spread your FUD elsewhere.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Asher
If you're upgrading your computer, the same license works. You can't install it on additional computers if you buy one license. The Mac OS X license works the same way, though they don't have activation.

That's foul. Who in hell keeps and upgrades a computer for more than 2 years? It's awfully obsolete by then. And with a new machine comes a forced new license.

Neither is spyware. MSN 6 comes with an optional "Customer Improvement Program", disabled by default, which would send usage data to MS. To enable it, you must go into Preferences and turn it on. That's hardly spyware.

Yea, sure... And then comes some neat and unexpected feature, which looks appealing at the first view and says "You have to enable the option XYZ to use this feature. Do you want to enable it now? Yes(preselected)/No". 95% of all users just hit enter, and there it is. Well known dirty tricks.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

That's foul. Who in hell keeps and upgrades a computer for more than 2 years? It's awfully obsolete by then. And with a new machine comes a forced new license.

I do. Mainly because I can't see the need of a new one. I thought about buying a new machine when my hard drive died (a victim of a power surge) but it's not really worth it apart from games.

The only thing I would really like is a Firewire port, but I can't be bothered spending thousands of dollars to get one.

[Asher]

You have to spend thousands of dollars to get a FIREWIRE port?? Jesus christ!

I got one for free on my soundcard, or you can spend $20 on a PCI card...

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper

I'll probably get both systems. I love the Chrono series of games, and the third in the series will likely remain on the PS series of game consoles. But XBox has drawn my interest lately as well, mainly because of KOTOR and Ninja Gaiden.

Gatekeeper

When did they announce they were going to release a third in the series!?

/me begins rushing off to rumor sites...

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Asher

If you're upgrading your computer, the same license works. You can't install it on additional computers if you buy one license. The Mac OS X license works the same way, though they don't have activation.

And the lack of activation is big, actually. In Windows XP Home don't you have to reactivate almost every time you install a new app?

I could install one copy of X.3 on both of my machines at home and pass the disk around to friends and Apple wouldn't be the wiser. Wouldn't be nice to do to one of my favorite companies, but M$ forces you to behave rather than letting you choose to behave.

I coulda sworn that Apple makes things like new versions of iChat AV and Cocoa only in new versions of Mac OS X...

Actually, I have iChat AV on my X.2 system right now... Then there's Cocoa, which I guess needs upgrading to balance out all of the improvements in X.3 but doesn't need to be upgraded if you stay with X.2.

Why're you laughing? You haven't even seen them yet, they're coming in SP2.

I think he was laughing at antivirus... though I do have to point out the only reason Macs aren't hurt by viruses is because hackers and virus programmers consider them a waste of time.

If the market was more half and half between Apple and M$ you can bet your sweet bippy there'd be Mac viruses... probably cross-platform viruses.

Neither is spyware. MSN 6 comes with an optional "Customer Improvement Program", disabled by default, which would send usage data to MS. To enable it, you must go into Preferences and turn it on. That's hardly spyware.

WM9 uses WindowsMedia servers to pull track data from the internet by default, which you can also turn off. That, too, is hardly spyware.

Spread your FUD elsewhere.

Did they finally fix the spyware issue in XP though? Wasn't there something on by default that basically let M$ spy that the basic home user doesn't know about?

(I have no clue, just a question).

And Sir Ralph, my computer is going on being four years old and I don't plan on getting a new one any time soon.

Drop a new HD in, yes. More RAM? Doubtful (bought it in 2000 with 640MB so that I wouldn't probably need to do that... ever.) Another monitor? Probably sometime, but the current one works well.

All I really want is an external firewire SuperDrive but I'm still waiting for the DVD+-RW and DVD-RW and all that other junk RW war to be over with.

Which one of those formats would let my PS2 (which acts as my DVD player) watch them?

[Asher]

Originally posted by FlameFlash
And the lack of activation is big, actually. In Windows XP Home don't you have to reactivate almost every time you install a new app?

No, not even close. You have to reactivate if you swap out the motherboard or change 6 pieces of hardware at once.

I could install one copy of X.3 on both of my machines at home and pass the disk around to friends and Apple wouldn't be the wiser. Wouldn't be nice to do to one of my favorite companies, but M$ forces you to behave rather than letting you choose to behave.

But people do not choose how to behave, casual copying like that costs them millions if not billions of dollars.

Not that it matters, if you're into piracy like you alluded to above you'd download the corporate edition of XP and do the same thing.

I think he was laughing at antivirus... though I do have to point out the only reason Macs aren't hurt by viruses is because hackers and virus programmers consider them a waste of time.

If the market was more half and half between Apple and M$ you can bet your sweet bippy there'd be Mac viruses... probably cross-platform viruses.

Exactly, but Agathon is under the impression that this is a "myth"...

Did they finally fix the spyware issue in XP though? Wasn't there something on by default that basically let M$ spy that the basic home user doesn't know about?

(I have no clue, just a question).

There is no spyware issue in XP, and there never was. It was FUD from Linux zealots mostly.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by FlameFlash

Quote:

Originally posted by Gatekeeper

Quote:

I'll probably get both systems. I love the Chrono series of games, and the third in the series will likely remain on the PS series of game consoles. But XBox has drawn my interest lately as well, mainly because of KOTOR and Ninja Gaiden. Gatekeeper

When did they announce they were going to release a third in the series!?

* FlameFlash begins rushing off to rumor sites...

Oops. Sorry to get your hopes up, but a third game in the Chrono series remains just a rumor, albeit one holds my rapt attention as well. I'm sure it will translate into reality — the Chrono series of games is a hit for Squaresoft, insofar as I know —*sometime in 2004.

Gatekeeper

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Asher


No, not even close. You have to reactivate if you swap out the motherboard or change 6 pieces of hardware at once.

Ah. Shows how much I know about M$.

But people do not choose how to behave, casual copying like that costs them millions if not billions of dollars.

Not that it matters, if you're into piracy like you alluded to above you'd download the corporate edition of XP and do the same thing.

/me shrugs.

All I said was that it's not nice to hurt companies.

Exactly, but Agathon is under the impression that this is a "myth"...

One reason I like Apple is because they have such a small user-base.

I'd be in something else with equally small user base if Apple was as big.

There is no spyware issue in XP, and there never was. It was FUD from Linux zealots mostly.

How about the rumor regarding a lot of stupid things being on by default that create security holes?

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper


Oops. Sorry to get your hopes up, but a third game in the Chrono series remains just a rumor, albeit one holds my rapt attention as well. I'm sure it will translate into reality — the Chrono series of games is a hit for Squaresoft, insofar as I know —*sometime in 2004.

Gatekeeper

Crud.

Oh well, if I can't have C3C I'll at least be able to have Chrono Something 3.

[Agathon]

The virus/market share thing is a myth.

Why else would a respected NYT columnist print a retraction?

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Agathon
The virus/market share thing is a myth.

Why else would a respected NYT columnist print a retraction?

Then why have virus software at all for the Mac?

What about the old HyperCard Viruses that would infect HyperCard files, deleting the program of the Card stack and then increasing the size dramatically?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
The virus/market share thing is a myth.

Why else would a respected NYT columnist print a retraction?

Just because the dude has a journalism degree doesn't mean he's the authority on computer security.

Give me a break.

A columnist with a journalism degree doesn't dictate what is fact and myth in computer security, and you should certainly be embarassed that somebody has to point this out to you.