Terry Schiavo, and in civilised America.

Ben Kenobi · October 16, 2003, 12:26

Don't see a thread on this...

Anybody heard about Terry Schiavo?

EDMONTON, October 15, 2003 (LifeSiteNews.com) - As efforts in the United States heat up to call attention to the plight of disabled Florida woman Terri Schiavo, the Canadian effort to save Terri's life is causing Americans to reflect on the threat to the right to life posed by the case. As LifeSite reported previously, Edmonton-based disabled activist Mark Pickup of HumanLifeMatters has taken up Terri's cause, seeking to have her granted asylum in Canada.

Pickup spoke to LifeSiteNews.com today, minutes before the feeding tube was set to be removed from Terri. "It seems something is happening here which will either embed (euthanasia) in our culture or society will reject it. Don't be afraid of what's coming, it's here," said Pickup.

The founder of HumanLifeMatters.com informed LifeSite that a U.S. radio host who interviewed him on the possible offer of asylum in Canada was stunned at the circumstances. "So, you're saying your group (HumanLifeMatters) wants Canada to protect Terri because we won't? That's a blunt way of putting it, but it's pretty close," said the host. After a short silence, Pickup responded, "Tell me America is going to protect Terri's inalienable right to life imbedded in your own Foundational Declaration." After a prolonged silence the radio host said, "I can't believe we've come to this."

In another call Pickup received regarding Terri's case, a frail voice of an old woman said, "I saw you on T.V. today. You're trying to get that disabled lady (Terri Schiavo) out of America before they kill her?" Pickup replied, "That's right." The woman continued, "I have been disabled all my life. I was born disabled in Germany in 1940. My parents had to hide me for 3 years before they snuck me out of the country. The government would have killed me." Taken aback, Pickup stuttered, "I'm sorry." The old woman said, "Things have not changed. Now you're trying to get a disabled person out of the country before the government kills her."

Euthanasia Prevention Coalition spokesman Alex Schadenberg told LifeSiteNews.com: "This is a classic case of euthanasia. We are not talking about a slippery slope but actual euthanasia upon a disabled woman. To make it worse, her death sentence has been given to her without any attempt at rehabilitation and without any opportunity to re-train her to eat with her mouth.

See Schindler family website for details on how to take action:
http://www.terrisfight.org

Shi Huangdi · October 16, 2003, 13:40

Yes, this case is particularly disgusting.

I hope the Florida government makes an effort to interven on Terri's behalf.

Ben Kenobi · October 16, 2003, 13:43

The clock is ticking.

They pulled out the feeding tube yesterday, so she is expected to live for two weeks before dying.

Where's the dignity in starvation?

Arrian · October 16, 2003, 13:46

Link to impartial news source on this?

-Arrian

Ben Kenobi · October 16, 2003, 13:56

There are no impartial web sources.

You should know that.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/980564.asp?0dm=C18MN

PINELLAS PARK, Fla., Oct. 15 — Doctors removed a feeding tube Wednesday that had kept a severely brain-damaged woman alive for 13 years after an appeals court refused to intervene. The ruling appeared to end a long legal battle between her husband and her parents, but with the woman not expected to die for several days, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush promised to pursue “whatever legal alternatives” he could to save her life.

An attorney for the Schindlers, Randall Terry, founder of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue, told reporters Wednesday afternoon that Terri Schiavo’s breathing tube had recently been removed for 2½ days and that she survived. He said the incident was proof that she could recover.

But doctors have testified that noises and facial expressions Terri Schiavo makes are reflexes and do not indicate that she has enough mental capabilities to communicate.

The family still may file a formal complaint with the state Department of Children & Families on their allegations that Michael Schiavo exploited his wife by using money awarded to her in a malpractice lawsuit to pay attorneys fees rather than for therapy. Schindler said he may still file a complaint in the coming days.

THE WOMEN, Terri Schiavo, 39, was taken off the tube at 3 p.m. and was expected to die within two weeks. She had been in a vegetative state since she suffered a heart attack in 1990.

Schiavo’s parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, had filed an emergency motion seeking a stay and therapy for Terri Schiavo to determine whether she could eat on her own. But the state appeals court rejected the motion Tuesday.

Michael Schiavo, the woman’s husband, said he was carrying out his wife’s wishes that she not be kept alive artificially. Her parents said their daughter had shown signs of trying to communicate and could be rehabilitated.

“In our eyes, it’s murder,” Bob Schindler said Wednesday on CBS’s “Early Show.”

George Felos, an attorney for Michael Schiavo, countered that the Schindlers were “still in denial” over Terri Schiavo’s wishes not to be kept alive.

GOV. BUSH SEEKS TO INTERVENE

Gov. Jeb Bush sided with the parents in court filings, but he took no other action until Wednesday morning.

Although his office said there was nothing Bush could do to stop the removal of the tube, the governor met with the Schindlers and instructed his legal staff to find some means to block the court order.

“I am not a doctor. I am not a lawyer,” Bush told reporters. “But I know that if a person can be able to sustain life without life support, that should be tried.”

Arrian, there is conflicting testimony regarding whether or not the woman is in a persistant vegitative state.

Secondly, how do we know that these are the wishes of the woman? All we have is the word of the husband vs. the word of the parents.

Theben · October 16, 2003, 14:53

Any written will? If not, does Florida law require medical professionals to keep people alive at all costs or does it allow for decisions made close family? In this case the husband would be the one to decide, not the parents. Can't say I know enough about it but I see enough to know that the canadian groups should butt out.

Adam Smith · October 16, 2003, 15:34

IIRC the problem is that there is a several million dollar medical malpractice award involved. As long as she is alive, the money is used to pay for her treatment. When she dies the money goes to her husband, no strings attached. Can you say "conflict of interest" boys and girls?

Stuie · October 16, 2003, 15:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Don't see a thread on this...

You didn't look hard enough...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=99354

Theben · October 16, 2003, 15:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Adam Smith
IIRC the problem is that there is a several million dollar medical malpractice award involved. As long as she is alive, the money is used to pay for her treatment. When she dies the money goes to her husband, no strings attached. Can you say "conflict of interest" boys and girls?

Well that certainly changes the picture.

Solver · October 16, 2003, 16:19

The husband seems like a real bastard. Some reports say that Terry can respond to some stimules.

And even if she can't, I don't see how killing a woman by letting her starve is right. Especially doing so in front of her parents...

Arrian · October 16, 2003, 17:20

Ok, considering the conflict of interest issue, and the position taken by her parents, I'd have to agree that this is wrong. I don't know about legal/illegal, but it's wrong.

I'm not generally against the idea of euthanasia. But it's got to be clear that the person to be euthanized wanted that. Clear. Beyond reasonable doubt, even.

-Arrian

chequita guevara · October 16, 2003, 17:29

Yeah, it's better to keep the body alive, taking up valuable hospital space, costing lots of money, ni the vain hope tha someday we discover a cure for massive brain damage.

PVS is not fixable. She will never recover. It's just a human body. The person has been dead for 13 years.

Shi Huangdi · October 16, 2003, 17:31

As I understand she is far from being being in such a vegatative state, she can still feel pain and interact with stimuli.

The Mad Monk · October 17, 2003, 02:21

Here is a Hannity & Colmes interview involving both sides. It has been "edited for clarity":

Quote:

Friday, August 15, 2003

This is a partial transcript from Hannity & Colmes, August, 13 2003 that has been edited for clarity. Click here to order a transcript of the entire show.

ALAN COLMES, HOST: Terry Schindler Schiavo suffered brain damage more than a decade ago and a Florida court has ruled that she is in a persistent vegetative state (search).

Her husband Michael wants her removed from life support, but her parents have been fighting for years to keep that from happening. The Florida appeals court has ruled against the parents. They're now trying to convince the Florida Supreme Court (search) to hear a final appeal.

We'll hear from Michael Schiavo's attorney in a few minutes. First, joining us now is Terry's father, Robert Schindler, also Terry's sister, Susan Carr.

We thank you both very much for being with us.

ROBERT SCHINDLER, FATHER OF TERRY SCHIAVO: Thank you.

COLMES: Mr. Schindler, let me go to you first. Why are you opposing Michael's wishes on this, who claims, I guess, that what he is doing is in his wife's…would be in her wishes.

SCHINDLER: Well, actually, they're not Terry's wishes. They're fabricated wishes. The bulk of her family and her friends have come out and said Terry never ever made these type of wishes.

And the court decision was predicated on him saying that Terry did these wishes and his brother and his sister-in-law. So they're really bogus wishes.

COLMES: Why would he be making these bogus claims?

SCHINDLER: Well, there was a motivation initially that there was an award of close to $1.6 million that was put in Terry's medical trust fund. And if Terry would have died, he inherits all that money.

COLMES: You're claiming he's doing this for crass financial reasons? That is his sole motivation? Doesn't care about the well-being of his wife and is purely in this to get money?

SCHINDLER: Well, the videos that you're looking at now and I saw on your screen depicts a girl that's been totally abandoned for the past 12 years. And that's what happens when someone has brain damage and they're not treated. And Terry's never been treated. The past three years she's been in solitary confinement.

COLMES: Susan, let me bring you in here. You know that a court has ruled and a panel in addition to that court, I guess, has ruled that, you know, they've done everything they could do and that they don't feel…a judge ruled that there would be additional medical treatment that could help.

How do you respond to what the court said about this?

SUSAN CARR, SISTER ON LIFE SUPPORT: Well, you know, we have more than 13 doctors that have come on affidavits that say that Terry can be helped. And the courts have ignored that. And other evidence that shows that Terry is not in the condition that has been misrepresented.

SEAN HANNITY, HOST: All right. Let me go to both of you here. And I'm very sorry that this has happened. It's a tragic situation.

If the Florida appeals court ruled against you, Robert, correct, as we've been saying.

SCHINDLER: That's correct.

HANNITY: And you're trying to convince the Florida Supreme Court. I want to show this video. This is the balloon video, and you're saying this proves that she's following the balloon and that this proves that she's alive. She's aware. She's conscious, isn't that what…the case you're making?

SCHINDLER: What the balloon does, Terry, when we visit her. I mean, she just beams like a Christmas tree. And she interacts with us. She's trying to talk. We have a speech pathologist that's on record saying she's trying to talk. And it seems everybody can see that Terry is reacting, with the exception of the court system.

HANNITY: Yes. Let me show another video here. Because I think this is very important. I mean, why aren't they…you know, let's go on the side of caution here. I want to show the tape of your mom, and this is it here. This is your mother and she's obviously. I've seen this video. Seems to me she's obviously reacting to her here.

SCHINDLER: Well, when she sees her mother. There's just a distinct look of pleasure comes on her face. And then she'll start…she tries to talk. And it's incredible. I mean, she's actually trying to communicate.

HANNITY: Susan…go ahead.

SCHINDLER: No, I say, unfortunately, she hasn't had any kind of therapy. She hasn't been helped. And that's the end product of someone that's been abandoned for all those years. It's just tragic.

HANNITY: Susan, do you think they're trying to kill your sister?

CARR: Absolutely. You know, Terry is merely a disabled woman that needs aggressive therapy to get better. Keep in mind, Terry could be here today, she could be sitting next to me. She doesn't have to stay in that room.

HANNITY: And you think it's for money?

CARR: Well, I mean, initially the motivation was money, but I don't know how much money is left since most of it has gone to his attorney.

COLMES: We wish her well. We hope that this has a happy ending. We thank you both very much for being with us.

SCHINDLER: No problem.

COLMES: Robert Schindler, Susan Carr, thank you.

HANNITY: Joining us now for the other side of this story, Michael Schiavo's attorney, author of Litigation: A Spiritual Practice. George Felos is with us.

George, well, you heard everything that was just head said here. When I look at that video, I see life in that woman.

GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: Well, Terry Schiavo is alive. There's absolutely no doubt about that.

She's in a vegetative condition, which means she has sleep cycles, she has wake cycles. Her body can respond to the environment, but she has no consciousness. And that's not me saying this. We've had two trials over 5 1/2 years of litigation, a trial judge and panels of appellate court that said the same thing.

HANNITY: All right. If that's the case and he doesn't want this to happen, and he wants to be done with this in the sense that he wants to pull off the life support. And the parents and the sister want it, why wouldn't he at least give them that wish and if they want to take care of her now and they want to take over the medical care of her, why can't they just say, ‘OK, this is important to you, I disagree but if it's important to you, it's your daughter. It's your sister, I loved her once. Let me give her to you.’

Why doesn't he just have the graciousness to do that for them?

FELOS: He didn't love her once, he loves her now. And the thing is this case is not about the parents' wishes or the husband's wishes. It's about Terry's wish. She has the right, even though she's incapacitated, to make her own treatment decisions.

HANNITY: But do you have any evidence she wanted this?

FELOS: Terry Schiavo said if she ever had to be dependent on the care of others, she wouldn't want to remain.

HANNITY: Did she say it in writing?

FELOS: Not in writing. She said, ‘No tubes for me.’ She said, ‘I don't want to stay alive artificially.’ But that's not me saying that. The court found that those were her wishes by clear and convincing evidence.

COLMES: It's Alan Colmes. Let me ask you about the charges that your client is in this for the money. You heard that charge being made just a few moments ago. Can you address that, please?

FELOS: It's just preposterous. When there was money, my client offered to donate it to charity to end this case. And there is no money. My client won't receive a penny as a result of Terry's death.

I mean, he has been in this case because he's a husband who said to his wife when his wife said, ‘Honey, please don't let me live that way, promise me,’ he's been keeping his promise. And at a great price.

COLMES: Well, the parents are saying that those were not her wishes. Her parents are saying that it's not what she wanted. So how do you prove that it was?

FELOS: Well, that's what we have courts for and that's what we have trials. We had an independent person, a judge, listen to our witnesses, listen to their witnesses, and this is the judge's conclusion.

The Schindlers have had an opportunity to present their doctors and we've presented our doctors. And the courts found beyond any doubt whatsoever that Terry is in a vegetative state.

COLMES: Why not err on the side of life and on the side of the possibility that some miracle could take place?

FELOS: Well, I'm all in favor of miracles but if you take the position that a miracle could take place at anytime then everyone would have to be hooked up to life support and medical treatment against their wishes.

COLMES: But if the family, like the parents, are willing to support her, are willing to take care of her, and you never know what can happen, stranger things have happened, why not err on that side, the side of life over death?

FELOS: Because we have a right to refuse medical treatment. Just because there's a treatment out there that can be applied to us, it doesn't mean we have to have it.

And this case is not about her parent’s ideology. They may want it for themselves, but that's not what Terry wanted. And we have a duty and her husband has a duty to have these wishes carried out.

HANNITY: All right. Well, I find myself in agreement with Alan. Err on the side of life in this particular case. Appreciate you being with us. Thank you for your time.

FELOS: Or condemn somebody to a life that they chose not to live.

HANNITY: You never know. Miracles can happen. I mean, I believe in them. Thank you, Mr. Felos.

Click here to order the entire transcript of the show.

Copy: Content and Programming Copyright 2003 Fox News Network, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Transcription Copyright 2003 eMediaMillWorks, Inc. (f/k/a Federal Document Clearing House, Inc.), which takes sole responsibility for the accuracy of the transcription. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material except for the user's personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon Fox News Network, Inc.'s and eMediaMillWorks, Inc.'s copyrights or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,94748,00.html

Lefty Scaevola · October 17, 2003, 11:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Yes, this case is particularly disgusting.

I hope the Florida government makes an effort to interven on Terri's behalf.

They did already, and lost.

Ben Kenobi · October 17, 2003, 13:38

Well, lets hope someone relents.

How can her caregivers just leave her there and not try to feed her?

Seems dissident beat me by 13 hours on the thread, but his is a poll.

I'll give it a bump, and let the mods decide what to do, since he was first.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=99354

The Mad Monk · October 18, 2003, 14:58

It was deleted?!