Do you whack AI scouts?

peterfharris · October 23, 2003, 21:06

I see many players whack AI settlers on sight (I am getting into this habit too

). Do any of you also have a predilection for whacking any passing AI scouts (assuming you not at war with the owner of said scout)?

I do this occaisonally when I want a free scout very early in the game. I think it is a good idea at Chieftain or Warlord but debateable at Regent and perhaps not worth the trouble at higher levels (but perhaps it is worth it).

Anyway gents, what do you think. Is this a good idea or another of my bad ideas?

alexman · October 23, 2003, 21:12

Not as good as a free pair of workers, but if you're planning to go to war with that civ soon anyway, definitely whack him.

Note that you get to keep the scout only if you are expansionist.

vmxa1 · October 23, 2003, 22:11

I only kill scouts if I really do not want them to get past that point.
It is not very common for me. Often I can pin them down even when I do want to kill them. It just does not hurt them enough to make it useful. Now losing an escort and a settler, is painful that early in the game, plus I get two workers. That is a huge change in status. They lost all that production and I can 2 workers.

Rhothaerill · October 24, 2003, 00:46

Honestly I don't think I've ever bothered to whack a scout unless I'm already at war with that civ.

Settlers on the other hand....

peterfharris · October 24, 2003, 01:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhothaerill
Honestly I don't think I've ever bothered to whack a scout unless I'm already at war with that civ.

Settlers on the other hand....

It is not often that I whack a passing scout. Sometimes I wish I hadn't.

OTH If said scout happens to be Russian, sometimes I just can't help myself....
(Cathy ALLWAYS gives trouble anyway).

Harovan · October 24, 2003, 03:23

- To whack a settler nets 2 free "half-time" workers (i.e. one full-time), worth 10 shields, 20 food and a couple hundred gold of saved upkeep. Very good.

- To whack a worker nets 1 free "half-time" worker, worth 5 shields, 10 food and ~100..200 gold of saved upkeep. Good.

- To whack a scout if I'm expansionist nets the scout, worth 10 shields, but needing upkeep. Pretty poor.

- To whack a scout if I'm not expansionist nets nothing, worth nothing. Shite.

Answer: If I am already at war or would have started one this turn anyway, it's a "maybe" (if it doesn't distract key forces), otherwise it's a clear "no".

vulture · October 24, 2003, 06:27

I think the only time I've whacked a scout was when it was obvious that it was going to get a goody hut before me if I didn't. So I killed the scout, popped the hut next turn, and got nothing for my efforts (still, denied the AI the benefits of the hut, which might have been better for an expansionist civ, with different random number of course). This was very early in the game, and I'd only just finished my second warrior. It turned out a few second later that the AI capital was very close by, and since this was emperor level, there was an annoyingly large force coming my way already. That game didn't last long.

Arrian · October 24, 2003, 09:00

I've tried it - knowing that if I do it, the AI will be scoutless for the rest of the game. I've done it when I meet up with an AI scout very early on, figuring that I can actually deny them something by killing it (killing it AFTER it's popped lots of huts and dicovered lots of the map is kinda useless, unless you're fighting them anyway).

Most of the time, however, I leave them be.

-Arrian

Paddy · October 24, 2003, 10:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhothaerill
Honestly I don't think I've ever bothered to whack a scout unless I'm already at war with that civ.

Settlers on the other hand....

get them early, keep them lean and mean....

Nor Me · October 24, 2003, 12:19

Expanionists can really gain from whacking an AI scout early as it gives you a greater proportion of the huts and allows you to keep the contact advantage for longer.

The only trouble is that they rarely have the opportunity.

I've certainly done it as the aztecs. They get to keep the contact advantage and normally have the military to convice the AI to make peace without much if any fighting (so no early golden age).

The Incas might be good at it. They'd get to keep the scout. However they might have trouble getting out of an early war without triggering their GA.

Yahweh Sabaoth · October 24, 2003, 12:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian
I've tried it - knowing that if I do it, the AI will be scoutless for the rest of the game

Is this really the case?

Quote:

Most of the time, however, I leave them be.

WHY?!? I whack scouts whenever I can (which is not always, as they're fast little buggers). If I'm an expanionist, that's a free scout, otherwise, it's a free diversion of the enemy's resources into a fruitless war, plus a little less map knowledge for the AI, and if it's true that they don't build any new scouts, then it basically means that's "bye bye" to the Expanionism for that AI!

I don't see the disadvantage to whacking a scout when you can, except that it starts a war you might not want to be in one...

...am I missing something?

Arrian · October 24, 2003, 13:01

Quote:

WHY?!? I whack scouts whenever I can (which is not always, as they're fast little buggers). If I'm an expanionist, that's a free scout, otherwise, it's a free diversion of the enemy's resources into a fruitless war, plus a little less map knowledge for the AI, and if it's true that they don't build any new scouts, then it basically means that's "bye bye" to the Expanionism for that AI!

I don't see the disadvantage to whacking a scout when you can, except that it starts a war you might not want to be in one...

...am I missing something?

As far as I know, the AI will not build another scout. That's one of the reasons the AI does poorly with the Exp trait.

I typically leave them be because killing them will lead to a war which might hamper my REXing, which is crucial. Now, sometimes I will open with an aggressive barracks + archers approach, attacking everything I see. That can be fun, but it's low percentage play. Most of the time, I go with an early granary noawadays, and that tends to leave me short on military at the beginning. I expand quickly, then plunk down barracks, THEN pump out a bunch of troops. If I see a settler team, well, that's different. The payoff is such that I'm ok with risking some interference with my expansion.

-Arrian

Dominae · October 24, 2003, 13:27

The real question is: "Does whacking this Scout justify an early war against the AI?".

If you're not confident in your abilities to resist the AI counter-attack, then the value of the Scout is not worth the whacking.

If you're playing Deity, where the relative advantage of getting a Scout is minimized due to all the AI's free units, then the value of the Scout is usually not worth the whacking.

This last point is also sometimes true on Emperor if you're on a small landmass or have many neighbors (it's not like you're going to know this early on, which is why this question is more interesting than I'm making it seem).

In general, the value of a Scout is not worth the whacking to start an early war with the AI. If that's what you already want to do, then there's no problem (especially if you're Expansionist). Only AI Workers and Settlers would actually make me rethink whether or not I want an early war with the AI.

Scouts are just gravy; Workers are potatoes and Settlers are the meat. I'll leave it up to you guys to make sense of that analogy!

Dominae

Yahweh Sabaoth · October 24, 2003, 13:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae
Scouts are just gravy; Workers are potatoes and Settlers are the meat. I'll leave it up to you guys to make sense of that analogy!

No way man. It's much more akin to, like, uh, a hamburger with a bun. The scout is like the bun; sure, it's not that important, but without it, your hands get juice all over them, which they might anyways if the burger was really rare, but it's really inconvenient, and uh... nevermind.

Theseus · October 26, 2003, 18:18

This is like the anti-version of Aeson's Scouting thread (in more ways than one).